Cindy Sherman JAN/FEB 1998

DAME DARCY READS THE PALM OF CINDY SHERMAN.

Dame Darcy has been reading palms professionally since she was ten years old.  

DD:  You know, I never knew what you looked like even though I've seen your image hundreds of times ...  There’s a chameleon sort of appeal.  Are you a Gemini?

CINDY:  No, I'm a Capricorn.

DD:  Oh, I was wondering because you do this multi-faceted work. 

CINDY:  Yeah.

DD:  So is your movie going to evoke the feeling that the photography does?  

CINDY:  I think so, I mean, some people tell me that it looks exactly like my work, and other people have said that it's not all what they were expecting, yet it still looks like my work.  So I'm not really sure what people are expecting, unless they think it's going to look like the film stills, which it doesn't.  It's not nostalgic like that.  But I think it has the macabre atmosphere that a lot of the later color work has.

DD:  Does it take place in the present day?

CINDY:  Yeah.  Because it's about computers and downsizing in this office where this woman works.  She becomes sort of unglued when she gets downsized.  She gradually kills everyone in her office, and brings their bodies to her basement in the suburbs where she sets up a little tableau with their bodies — like, the ideal office for her.

DD:  Are you the woman?

CINDY:  No.  No, I'm not in it.  I didn't want to act in it because I thought that I'd be nervous enough directing it.

DD:  Who’s in the movie?

CINDY:  Carol Kane plays the ...

DD:  Carol Kane is in it?  Oh, my God! 

CINDY:  She plays the killer.

DD:  I love her.  She's the killer?

CINDY:  Yeah.

DD:  Oh, my God!  No!

CINDY:  She's really good.

DD:  Oh man, her voice ...

CINDY:  Yeah.

DD:  She's got a killer's voice.

CINDY:  Yeah, yeah.

DD:  Wow.

CINDY:  And Jean Trippelhorn and Molly Ringwald are also ...

DD:  Molly Ringwald's in it?  Oh, man!  This, I’ve got to see.  What’s the movie called?

CINDY:  It’s called Office Killer.   

DD:  Part of the appeal of your film stills work is that you can make up a whole movie around each one.  And I thought that maybe this movie would be just a series of different images, but with a plot.

CINDY:  When the idea was offered to me, I had to then spend about a year working with people writing the script, to think of what I wanted — what is this story going to be?  Some other artists who made films have, for years, been dreaming and plotting and planning their film in their head.

            And in some cases, maybe the narrative wasn't even that important because they just saw it in their head.  But I didn't really come to it in that way.

DD:  You were working more from scene to scene ...

CINDY:  Yeah.

DD:  ... than from image to image?

CINDY:  The way I saw the narrative, the structure of the story was really just as the bare bones, like a skeleton that I would attach images to.  

DD:  I really love the morbid element in your work.

CINDY:  Well, this is definitely morbid.  It's not that gory.  So calling it a horror film isn't really right.  People like me, who are big fans of horror films, might be disappointed because it doesn't have a lot of blood and guts.  There's a little bit of blood ...

DD:  But that's splatter films, not horror.

CINDY:  Yeah, yeah.

DD:  Horror can be evoked in people more if you just show shadows on the wall than if you actually show someone cutting someone up.

CINDY:  Right, right.  And a lot of the violence in this film is off the screen.  It's not even that scary, which is kind of interesting, but that doesn't bother me.  I wish it was scarier but I still think it's so creepy just the way it is.  Maybe not being scary adds to that creepiness.

DD:  So it's more like a study in some kind of psychosis rather than a crazy hacking shop, run-from-the-theater- screaming type film.

CINDY:  Right, yeah.

DD:  I can't wait to see that.  It sounds really good.

CINDY:  I hope so. 

DD:  So do you have any particular questions before I start reading your palm?

CINDY:  Well, can you tell me if I'm going to make another film?  Or if my work will change like in some direction?  I don't know if you can see that?

DD:  Maybe.

CINDY:  Do you have enough light?  

DD:  No, that's fine.  Okay, so are you right or left-handed?

CINDY:  I’m right-handed.

DD:  Okay, you have a very complex lifeline.  In fact, your lifeline splits into two different lines.  When you were younger, if you'd gone in a certain direction with your life, you would not have ended up as happy and successful as you are now.

            There's a point, maybe around ten, when you were a child, when some crucial decision that you made really changed your whole life.

CINDY:  Wow.

DD:  You seem to have an old presence or spirit.  Your subconscious guides you a lot, which your work also shows.  A lot of it's like dream and nightmare imagery.  And that shows up a lot in your palm.  Maybe even ideas and things that are coming from another place — other people or ghosts, not just necessarily from your own experience.

            You seem to be a divining rod, a little bit.  You work very hard and you'll always work really hard.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it's something you don't want.

CINDY:  Right.

DD:  You give really good advice to people and you have a very nurturing, generous nature.  You've always tried to help people and people have always tried to help you in return.  You're going to live a long time.

CINDY:  That's good.

DD:  You'll live a really long time.

CINDY:  Oh, good!

DD:  Maybe even into your late 90s or mid-90s.

CINDY:  Fantastic, wow, that's good.

DD:  You have fairly good health.  If you ever have bad health, it's directly related to your psychology.  Like if you get a migraine or something, or if you have an upset stomach or a cold, a lot of times it's having to do with what's going on around you, not just a physical thing.

            You have a great capacity for love.  It's easy for you to fall in love.  You get your heart broken fairly easily.  You have in the past, because you give so much right away, and so easily.

            You have a lot of people in your love line — more people than usual.  You had several chances for love when you were younger.  Some of them were sometimes in your mind.  Friends and loves are sort of about the same thing.

Sometimes friendships for you are just so intense that it is like love, so that's why they would show up ...

CINDY:  ... Like old boyfriends, and we're just really good friends now? 

DD:  Right.  They don't seem to fade away or betray you really.  You have three or four chances for marriage.  But you've already had one that ... I don't know whether you did get married or not?  I can't tell.

CINDY:  Well, I'm married now, but does that also include living with people for a long time?

DD:  Sometimes it will show up as marriage like that.

So how long have you been married?

CINDY:  Fourteen years.

DD:  It will stay strong, it will stay sturdy.  He’s very much in love with you.  And I think he'll probably live a long time too because I don't see any big, like ...

CINDY:  Traumatic ...

DD:  Traumatic grief thing happening when you're older, which I suspect that might cause.

CINDY:  Right, right.

DD:  But yeah, you have a very strong marriage and it's going to last a long time.  And it will probably even get stronger as you get older.  He is supportive of you in a lot of ways.

CINDY:  Yeah, yeah.

DD:  You're good at coordinating and organizing people.  You try to be fair, and you seem very easygoing, but if somebody really tries to screw you over or hurt you, then you'll get out the big guns.  You're tough, even though you might not appear tough.

            You definitely have a good sense of who is good and who is wrong and you can sort of judge people very quickly.  You don't judge them, but you can surmise what they want, upon first meeting them, whether they are going to try some crazy thing or not.

            Now, make a fist.  You have two child lines which are fairly dark, meaning that there will be two children in your life that are either your own or that you will be very close to, but aren't your own.

CINDY:  Right, my husband has two kids.  One is his, and one is his daughter's half-sister.  So it's the same mother, but a different father.  And we are close.

DD:  Do you have any questions pertaining to your work?

CINDY:  Somebody was trying to read my palm once and was curious because of these two X's at the end, like right here.  And they didn't know what it meant.

DD:  Well, it's sort of a crossover between, like, this is your head line and you're very contemplative.  And sometimes you think about things maybe too much — to an obsession, or you can't sleep sort of thing.  And you have all of your life, all of your lines are interconnected with other lines.

It's like a web.  In your world, love and travelling and your life, your past, your present, your future and what's going on in your mind and your heart are all integrated.  They aren't separate from each other.  Like some people have their life, and then they have their travel.

CINDY:  Right, right.

DD:  They have their family, and then they have their lover.  And in your world it's all very, very connected.  And I think that that's what these X's are.  They're just connecting it all.

CINDY:  Right, right.  And that same person was wondering, I guess this is probably what you were talking about ...

DD:  Your other life.

CINDY:  Yeah, I've always wondered, what is that, because my private self is so different from the artist self?  

DD:  Well, in your case, it may appear different to other people.  It may appear very separate.  But it's not.  You are who you are, and what you do is what you're thinking and how you feel — exactly.

CINDY:  Right.

DD:  And maybe to other people it comes up as this disjointed imagery, but it's not.  This is like, from when you were a child.  There was a point in time where, if you decided to not learn photography or not pursue making what's in your subconscious, if you decided to just take the straight path and get a job — I think you would have been a lot less happier.  But that was an option at one point.

CINDY:  Yeah, funny.

DD:  But it's no longer there.  You were more predestined to go the way that you did.

CINDY:  So can you tell if I am going to make another film?  Or will I pretty much stay just making art?  It's not like I want to go out and make another film, but I'm just curious.

DD:  Your career seems to be very integrated with your life.  And I see that your life is going fine.  And I think that if it was going to devastate you that you didn't make another film, then no, I don't see that.  But I can tell that you'll probably continue doing ...

CINDY:  Just what I'm doing.

DD:  Yeah.  And whatever opportunities present themselves, you can handle it because of the other aptitudes that you have.  It's really important, if you're working with film that you can deal with coordinating giant groups of people.

CINDY:  That's true.

DD:  Which I'm sure, as a director, you've noticed.

CINDY:  Yeah.

DD:  You're very lucky because a lot of people are very dedicated to you.  And you can rely on them and you can count on them until you’re old.  Which is a treasure.  A lot of people don't have that.

CINDY:  Right.

DD:  You have a very spiritual nature.  But you have a restless side.  And the older that you get, the more it wanes away.  It was very strong when you were young, but the older you get, you’re not as restless.

CINDY:  Huh, interesting.

DD:  You'll probably end up being just one of the calm old ladies.

CINDY:  Instead of one of those cranky old ladies.

DD:  The crazy old ladies, right.

CINDY:  Oh, I love those cranky old ladies.

DD:  Yeah, they're cute too.  They are cute.

CINDY:  Huh, wow.  I can't think of any . . .

DD:  If you have any other questions, you can ask me later.  So good luck with everything.

CINDY:  Thanks, thanks.